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Tammy Kling is a bestselling author who teaches others that “words are currency.” Her TEDx talk, describes how your words can change and even save lives. Tammy often coaches celebrities, athletes and CEOs through the book process.

Find Tammy Kling online at:


Stefan Aarnio: Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the show, Respect the Grind with Stefan Aarnio. Now this is the show where we interview people who have achieved mastery and freedom through discipline. We interview entrepreneurs, athletes, authors, artists, real estate investors, anybody who has achieved mastery and examined what it took to get there. Now, today on the show I have a dear friend of mine, Tammy Kling, who is well as one of America’s top, corporate ghost writers. She’s written, I think it’s hundreds of books. We’re going to have to check with Tammy on the number. I know it’s going up, up, up all the time. She’s the CEO of OnFire books and she is a highly coveted and desired and wanted writer for many of the worlds most powerful people, including billionaires, athletes, all sorts of fantastic people. Tammy, welcome to the show, Respect the Grind. Thank you so much for joining me. How are you doing today down there in … Are you in Dallas today?

Tammy Kling: I am in Dallas and thank you. I’m so excited to be on your show.

Stefan Aarnio: Well, thank you for coming, Tammy. It’s a pleasure and an honor. Now I was mentioning there in the intro that you’re one of America’s top, corporate ghost writers. You do some books for some big clients. I’m actually one of your clients too. That’s how we know each other. Now, how many books have you and your company produced now? It’s got to be in the hundreds.

Tammy Kling: We are definitely beyond the 3,000 mark right now and OnFire books has been in business for a good 12 years. We just started laser focusing on entrepreneurs, CEOs, leadership books, and that’s really what shot the numbers up higher, because we really focused on how often we talk to leaders and help them mentor other people like you. You’re one of our favorite authors.

Stefan Aarnio: Wow. Mostly, it sounds like you’re mostly helping the leaders, CEOs, mentors. Now, why are, why would somebody out there today … It’s 2018 while we’re shooting this. Why does somebody want to publish a book or make a book these days? Why are all these people coming to you, Tammy?

Tammy Kling: Most of the time someone actually comes with a real desire to tell a story, because they’ve reached a level of mastery. Like you, they become a master in their field as an entrepreneur. By the time you get to writing a book, you really have to be doing something excellent, so I’m not one of those people that believes that everyone should tell their story. I really do believe in equipping world changes, which means mastery. It really means who’s the best in their particular industry and how can we take that book and how can we help other people that want to learn those leadership behaviors grow. Just like you are without a doubt, ask anybody in Canada, “Who’s the best in real estate investing?” Your name comes up all the time, “He’s the best. He’s the best.” I think that as people get to that state of excellence, they really want to focus on putting their intellectual property in a book, and maybe they don’t have time because they’re super successful.

Tammy Kling: Even Warren Buffet doesn’t have time to write his own books and he’s arguably one of the smartest guys in the world. Certainly always in the top one or two richest, but it’s really a great thing to be able to create a legacy and actually put it in writing.

Stefan Aarnio: That’s powerful. Now, Tammy you mentioned a really interesting point. People can’t write a book until they’ve reached a level of mastery at something. I joined a group called Canadian Speakers Association a couple years ago. It was interesting, because everybody at that group, the speakers association was older than me, a lot older. They were 40, 50, 60, 70, because they had to take the time to become a master, then write a book, then be a speaker. Now, for you, you’re like a facilitator of these masters and you’re creating books for all these people. How did you get started in such a business or in such a niche? Where was Tammy Kling before she got into all of this writing?

Tammy Kling: Well, it’s interesting, because I really do believe that like Napoleon Hill, who was placed in this situation amongst leaders and greats during his generation, that I do have a mission to really equip world changers and take the greatest leaders and the greatest minds and curtate that information. Before that … I do have a journalism degree and an advertising degree, but I think that a lot of it all goes back to your core purpose. I know that you’re fantastic at what you do and yes you worked hard for years, but it’s also a natural anointing that you have. It’s a gift. If somebody else came along and said, “Hey, I want to be Stefan,” it’s a gift. They might try, but you really have this natural gift. Before I started my company, I wrote a lot of my own book and I sold them to Penguin and McGraw Hill and New York Publishes, but I was with Zig Ziglar one day and he was on stage speaking and I looked at him and I really thought, “Zig is gifted to speak on stages. I want to help guys like that reach more people with really positive messages.”

Tammy Kling: That’s how I started my company, was from that day watching Zig. I really realized I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I wanted to work hard, I was willing to stay up late at night, work hard to really focus on not being the rock star, but equipping rock stars.

Stefan Aarnio: Wow. Almost like a facilitator, a conduit, someone who’s bringing that message out to the world. Now, Tammy, you work with a lot of different people, a lot of successful people, some people so successful and so powerful you can’t even say who they are. Do you believe that success is more talent or hard work?

Tammy Kling: Wow. Okay, you’re getting into some great questions. I think success is 90% hard work, because I’ve seen a lot of people that are so incredibly gifted and probably one of the biggest frustrations I have is that I can see somebody’s potential and talent, but when they don’t live up to it, when they won’t work hard and they can’t step into it, there’s nothing more that I can do. I may be able to get them on a show or be a conduit that points them in the right direction or map out a plan, but if they’re not willing to work hard, I see that three, five years later, they’re still as silent talent. I have to say hard work, because I know in my own life that that’s what it takes. I see very few people willing to stay up all night two nights a week when they’re really grinding to be an entrepreneur. I don’t, I think that’s the exception and not the norm, and I think you really have to work hard and combine that with a little magic and talent, and you’re unstoppable.

Stefan Aarnio: It’s interesting what you said there, Tammy about staying up two nights a week grinding. People always talk about, “Oh, Stefan’s got black circles under his eyes and oh, he looks like he was up all night.” I do stay up all night every now and then. I know you stay up all night too, because you and I talk on the phone at two, three, four in the morning sometimes and then we’ll talk again at 6:00 a.m., and we’re up all night grinding. There’s also the kind of people out there that maybe don’t believe in the idea of grinding and they say, “Oh, you can get into flow or get into effortlessness or something like that.” Do you believe that it’s possible to get a level of success without grinding? Do you that people can have a flow moment or go into that? Is it grinding versus flow? What do you think?

Tammy Kling: It’s, those things combined make greatness, because there are moments of flow, but flow is often something that comes super naturally. You might be able to go to the jungle in Latin America with no work agenda and a journal and you might get into a state of flow that is so supernatural, because you left your routine and discipline behind, and leave that jungle with some incredible product and a new company or a new idea or a new book. You can’t, if you’re an entrepreneur, you can’t say, “I don’t want to work hard, I don’t want to grind.” A lot of people do say, “Well, you need balance, you need balance.” The best way it was defined to me is years ago I had a great mentor who started a company for nothing, sold it for a couple hundred million dollars, and he told me, he said, “People can strive for balance, but you really have to define it correctly.” Balance isn’t not taking calls on Sunday or being so righteous that you say, “Well, I’m not going to work on Saturday. I’m going to take that day off with my family.”

Tammy Kling: He said, “What if balance was that you could live and work and combine all the things that you love at once and yet understand that sometimes it’s really good to be out of balance. For instance …” And he gave me a couple of great examples. For instance, let’s say you’re an athlete and you’re 24 and you like to go out and have a couple beers with friends, and that’s normal. But then let’s say you’re going to train for the Olympics, so for four months you know that you have to say no not only to the beers with your friends, but to anytime with your friends, because for four months you’re going to be training for nine, ten hours a day, and you’re going to be what most people would call unbalanced. For each individual, you really have to look at your goal and say, “Am I willing to do what it takes?” I think that a healthy perception of balance is what you and your energy and your body and your business need.

Tammy Kling: There are going to be times that you’re exhausted, there are going to be times where you stay up all night, and there are going to be times that you have to train, train, and train some more, ten hours a day. Does that sound like balance? No, it doesn’t, but if you want to live a regular life, you’ll buy into the regular myths.

Stefan Aarnio: I love what you said there about balance. I had a mentor once, Tammy, who said, “You cannot move forward or walk if you’re in balance. If you’re in balance, you’re staying still in life. To walk forward, you actually go out of balance, lean forward, and your feet catch you and keep you from falling down. That’s what walking is. To be able to walk forward, you’ve got to be out of balance.” Would you agree with that kind of idea?

Tammy Kling: Yeah. That’s perfect. That’s a perfect analogy. It’s true and I think people tend to really buy into whatever they see out there and they really have to get the right vision of what they want and understand that it is not going to be all sunshine and rainbows and flow if you’re going to work hard. That’s why they call it work. It’s hard. It should also be fun and exciting and enjoyable, but sometimes work is hard.

Stefan Aarnio: Absolutely. We talked about talent versus hard work. Now, Robert Green, he wrote 48 Laws of Power. I know how you feel about that book. He also wrote a book called Mastery. He said that mastery is a blend of creativity and discipline. Do you think creativity is more important today or is discipline more important today?

Tammy Kling: Well, I would have said creativity, however years ago I would have said creativity, because that’s a gift also. Some people have these amazing visions and ideas and it is true that sometimes people have creative ideas that no one else in the world can see. Look at the iPhone and before that. Sometimes creativity is really essential, but as an entrepreneur and anyone in any industry that wants to achieve mastery, you really have to get to a place where you have routine and discipline.

Stefan Aarnio: Would you say, which would you say is the front runner then for you today, Tammy Kling, 2018, creativity or discipline?

Tammy Kling: Discipline, discipline, discipline.

Stefan Aarnio: Disc … Okay, okay. Great. Another question, Tammy, another business question for you. You got OnFire Books, great brand, Tammy Kling, great brand. Do you think it’s more important today for an entrepreneur … A lot of people listening to this show are entrepreneurs or real estate investors or somebody trying to make it, usually. Do you think it’s more important to build a great brand or to build a great business?

Tammy Kling: Boy, you don’t come with any easy questions, do you?

Stefan Aarnio: I’m only … I’m heavy hitters today. These are all deep. We’re going deep with stuff at Aarnio.

Tammy Kling: I know. You’re going to have the best show out there, because I’ve been on a lot of shows. I was on Atlanta podcast with a thousand listeners and we didn’t get any depth like this. This is a great, a great question.

Stefan Aarnio: It’s like we’re dating. This is an intimate date right now, Tammy. We’re, this is like second date, third date questions right here.

Tammy Kling: You’re asking the good, deep questions. You really have to get to know someone. This is the place that every entrepreneur gets frustrated when they see somebody in their business that has no idea what they’re doing, that is poor, but they’re out there teaching a class on wealth or something, and they’ve got these great posters and a shiny brand, because they paid somebody $5 on Fiber or whatever. It’s frustrating to me, of course, and to most entrepreneurs who have great businesses to see people that aren’t building a solid. The other side of that, I think that you can build a great brand and that will help you build a great business, because we do live in that kind of society where everybody thinks if you look good, you’re in a suit, “Oh, they must be credible.” The key to building a great business is that’s going to happen over time and that’s going to happen through longevity and that’s going to happen through hard work. Building a great brand is essential for every great business and great company, but I would have to say looking at a great business …

Tammy Kling: If I ran a concrete company, I could still be a million and a billionaire and have a concrete company without any kind of sexy posters.

Stefan Aarnio: Right. It’s a tough question to answer and I’ve thought about it a million times, because you could be a guy like Richard Branson who builds a brand and attaches businesses to a brand, or you could be a guy with a business who attaches a brand to his business. You can do it either way. It’s always interesting to hear peoples perspective on which do they value more. Now, in your life, and your business, Tammy, every high achiever out there in the world has an obsession. What is your obsession?

Tammy Kling: I think my obsession aside from real quality … I do have a problem with things that aren’t quality. My obsession is definitely quality and impacting as many lives as we can. If I see somebody incredibly gifted in their field, like you for instance, I really have this burning passion to where it keeps me up all night and I’ll be thinking about different ways to enhance their business and different things they can do, to the point where I’m like you. I’m a visionary, and idea maker, and I have to reign myself in and say, “Just because I have ten ideas doesn’t mean everyone can execute all those ideas.”

Stefan Aarnio: Your obsession then, what is it? Is it quality? Is it value? Is that the obsession?

Tammy Kling: I would say delivering value and quality, but really, really delivering lives changed. I really don’t think that it would be good for me to be in a business where I felt like I wasn’t doing anything meaningful. I really love to mentor other people and one of the ways I can do that is if I help you build your business, you might mentor somebody that doesn’t have a father figure or a mentor. You and I have talked about this many nights and we talked about your most recent book. Whether it’s a book or a real estate program, if I can help you help someone else get either financial freedom or emotional control of their life, then that right there, I’m obsessed with growth and growing people.

Stefan Aarnio: Tammy, we’re going to switch gears here a little bit. Tammy Kling at one point, I’m sure, was not a massive success and then looking at her today, there’s probably a transition somewhere in there and your company today, OnFire Books is a successful company. You guys are doing great stuff. I saw a post the other day of all the books coming out this quarter through OnFire Books, mine was on the list, which was kind of cool. What was one moment when you were building that company or transitioning maybe from an unsuccessful Tammy Kling to a successful Tammy Kling? What was one moment in that transition where you thought you would fail and it would all be over?

Tammy Kling: I would say one moment was when I started feeling overwhelmed and I started doubting whether I could really keep the pace, because it’s easy to be a sole provider, but once you start a business, as you know, you have a lot of other peole and families and relying on you. It’s all about systems and processes and sales teams. I think I started getting overwhelmed at one point and just at the right time I got this entrepreneur contacted me with the right message and the right book. The message was, “You got to be all in, and this is something every entrepreneur goes through.” I was feeling like a lone ranger. I was feeling like I was the only one out there that felt like I was working so hard. I was the only one that … I felt like I was alone in the fight. You are a lone ranger a lot of times when you’re an entrepreneur. It’s not like you get a paycheck from a big company. I think getting over that and resetting and recalibrating my midst was so critical, because when you have ideas or you lead a business, sometimes you want to do it all at once.

Tammy Kling: We need mentors and we need angels to come in our life and say, “Hey, stop trying to do everything at once, because you’re your own worst enemy.” I think once I got through that realization that I don’t have to do every single thing at once, and I can relax and do what’s in front of me, then that became, that was a big moment for me. How about you?

Stefan Aarnio: For me, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. Biggest moment where I thought I was going to fail? Tammy, it happens. When you got multiple companies, you think it’s daily, daily you go, “Oh my god, I think it could all end.” That’s part of the bipolar nature of being an entrepreneur. Now, talking about failure with or thinking about failure for yourself, what do you think causes failure in other people, just from the people that you see on a day to day basis? What causes someone to fail?

Tammy Kling: The number one cause of failure is people do not focus. So it’s clarity and focus. I believe that … I’ve seen a lot of people fail, because they are unwilling to focus. I’ll give you a specific example. Brilliant guy came to me once and wanted to work with us. I looked on LinkedIn. The guy is thousands upon thousands of connections on LinkedIn. Brilliant articles, brilliant ideas, and I saw that he started a company. Six months later I got to know him, almost partnered with him. He started another company and I started thinking, “Okay, all right. This guy’s either wildly successful or can’t focus.” A few months later he pops up with this totally different company and t-shirts and all this. Then, he tells me, he sends out an email, tells everybody that he went out of business. Well, it was like five companies in the year that I knew this dude. He was very gifted and very talented and really great at growing relationships, but he had a lack of focus. He did not lack enthusiasm at all. He lacked focus.

Tammy Kling: A big reason for failure is a lot of people have unrealistic expectations and they want to focus on five different companies or six, when they haven’t reached that level of mastery to be able to manage all that.

Stefan Aarnio: Right, to do five companies. I have two companies and this year I’m getting into eCommerce more and then I’m also going to get into the storage business. I might have four companies, but for every company you need X number of employees in an organization to back that up. That all takes time to grow. Now, in your life, Tammy, your business life, your personal life, if you could go back to the beginning, say 18 year old Tammy Kling, what’s a piece of advice you would say to yourself?

Tammy Kling: Piece of advice I would say ironically is the same advice I would give myself last year, which is … So maybe I need to learn that lesson, which is be calm and don’t make anything bigger than it is. A lot of people believe that if they lose a client it’s a crisis, if they do … They show up at a meeting and they don’t look right, it’s a crisis. There’s a lot of life that you have to live to realize that if it’s a money problem, then it’s not really a problem. You can always make more money. There’s very few burning platform crisis’s that we have in life. The advice I would give to the 18 year old self would be relax and really try to enjoy every single day. I’ve always been a worker. It’s in me like it is in you. I bet if I talked to your mom or dad they’d say you came out with entrepreneurial ideas. Some people are like that. For those of us who are natural born entrepreneurs, I think the best advice is chill, try to enjoy this day, just for what the day is, not for what we can achieve or accomplish.

Tammy Kling: Entrepreneur is we’re driven by results.

Stefan Aarnio: Right. Absolutely. I love that.

Stefan Aarnio: Now, you’re a book expert, Tammy, writing books, reading books. What are the top three books that changed your life in the last however many years? What are the top three books for Tammy Kling?

Tammy Kling: Wow. Well, I really like your book a lot. I love, I love your book. You’re causing me to think, the top three. Well, I like The Compound Effect, only because the principle of it is so simple to do the same thing over and over and over again to get results. I love books that are simple and not difficult. The Compound Effect is one of those.

Stefan Aarnio: Yeah, by Darin Hardy, right? That’s by Darin Hardy?

Tammy Kling: Yes.

Stefan Aarnio: Okay, great.

Tammy Kling: Yes. Yes. I don’t follow him necessarily. I don’t really follow any gurus, but I do recognize a great concept when I see it. I love that book for that reason.

Stefan Aarnio: You got to give me two more, Tammy. I said three.

Tammy Kling: I’ve got to give you two more. Boy, that’s a … You’ve got a conundrum there, because … Let me mention some classics, instead of client books.

Stefan Aarnio: Yeah, you can’t just say Stefan Aarnio books. I know you love me and I know you love my books, but we can’t say Stefan’s books. Let’s hear about the classics. We got Compound Effect. Give me two classics that are big life changer, game changers for you.

Tammy Kling: There are some amazing books that one classic is definitely the Ever Day of Life and it’s interesting, because I’m a futurist. I wish I could see a thousand years in the future, but when you read the Every Day of Life, you realize there are people around thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago, they may have been smarter than us, because they had the same foundational tool. They had a brain and so it’s not like the brain, it’s not like atmosphere changes the brain. The brain is the brain. These guys may have had better ideas than Steve Jobs. Reading some of those classics like the Every Day of Life is brilliant. I would say that a book that every single CEO I’ve ever done a book for has said changed their inner man was Think and Grow Rich. That’s a book that even guys that don’t value wealth as much as they value other parts of the success of life has said that that book has really been a classic that has helped change their mindset.

Stefan Aarnio: It’s funny, Tammy. I’ve done, today I’m doing seven interviews today, and every single person has said Think and Grow Rich. Every single one, Think and Grow Rich, Think and Grow Rich, Think and Grow Rich. Why do you think, Think and Grow Rich is the reigning champion?

Tammy Kling: Soon their going to be saying Hard Times.

Stefan Aarnio: Oh, Hard Times, Great Strong Men. Yeah, it could happen. It’s true. So, Tammy, in your growth, your transformation throughout life, who was an important mentor that you learned from and what did you learn from that person?

Tammy Kling: I didn’t. I was one of those people who didn’t have a mentor in my life until I started my company. My mentors have been my clients all along the way and one of my earliest mentors was a CEO and his name is Lamar Smith. Lamar was also a former fighter pilot. When we were writing his book he taught me the concept of target fixation and he said that sometimes people get so focused on the target at the expense of everything else, so let’s say you have an idea or a goal and you’re going to meet that goal no matter what at all cost. Well, a lot of times people forget to look at the bigger picture. They get so rigid and focused on that, that they can’t understand that maybe they need to recalibrate and let go of that goal. Target fixation is a concept that fighter pilots are often fixated on a target when they’re fighting and it’s a common cause of a crash in which they die.

Stefan Aarnio: Wow.

Tammy Kling: Because the plane goes into a spiral and they focus on a target and they don’t realize how close they are to the ground until it’s too late. He taught me that concept to really step back and say, “Here’s your goal that you said you were going to set, but is that more important than everything else and is it really something that you still want to focus on?”

Stefan Aarnio: On the other side of mentoring you got this gentleman that’s mentoring you on targets and focusing on targets, and focusing on the big picture. On the other side of it, who is somebody you mentored, how did they benefit, and then how did you beneift by mentoring them?

Tammy Kling: Well, and that’s the beautiful thing is mentorship is so symbiotic and you could mentor somebody that is 20 or somebody that’s 50 and you often do and the great thing about that is that you don’t even know when it’s happening sometimes until that moment. We try to be intentional, but I have people that I mentored where I talked to them about their lives and they’ve been clients. Recently a guy who sold his company for 200 million dollars, he sold a tech company and he came to me and he said … “The conversation really changed my life and it helped me discover my legacy.” We had a nice, hour long talk over lunch and I helped him figure out that next step after he sold his company of how he was going to live out his legacy. At the same time, when I’m reading clients books or I’m helping them, I always have that strategic vision for the next step and I can see what is it, who do they need to meet to get where they are or to reach their goal? A lot of times I do mentor our clients even if they’re much more successful than me. Some are, some aren’t, depending on how you look at success.

Tammy Kling: I think that we can mentor a lot of different people. We have to be opened to the idea of it doesn’t have to be your 20 year old intern.

Stefan Aarnio: Yeah, mentorship does go in all different ways. I have I think five clients with MBAs. I’m a business school dropout, accounting dropout, and I’m mentoring guys with MBAs now. It’s really interesting. It’s like you said, it’s symbiotic and it can go both ways. Tammy, if you could do it all again, if you could push the restart button on your life and your business, is there anything that you’d do differently or anything that you regret?

Tammy Kling: Regret, I would say no. Differently, I would say I would be more teachable at a much younger age. I see guys like you, well you especially, it’s very rare to see somebody that is so dedicated to personal development and learning like you are, because most people think they know everything. That was certainly true for me. I always wanted to do things my own way and I wanted to learn and I wanted to do it the hard way. I think that collaboration is a lot easier path, but if you’re a trail blazer and you’re a maverick, you have a hard time seeing other peoples ideas. A lot of times you might be the one with the idea and the only one. I think I would have probably focused on being teachable and collaborating more in my 20s. I always wanted to do things on my own and I always wanted to do things the hard way. I’m a hands on worker. I’m a hands on learner. I’ve learned over the last five, ten years, to be better about outsourcing, letting go, building a team, and letting them have the freedom to do things their way.

Stefan Aarnio: Would you say that it’s a pride thing? There’s usually people who are humble and there’s people who are prideful. Prideful people, they don’t want anybody to teach them and they think they know everything. I’m talking to people every day, they want coaching, they want mentoring, but at the same time they think they know it all. Would you say it was pride that got in the way for you opening up and learning earlier?

Tammy Kling: I would say more insecurity, probably. I probably wanted to start doing what I wanted to do, especially writing my first book. For instance, and also I’ve always been a real individualist even back in college. I’ve never been somebody that got external satisfaction or approval from other people. I really judged my own success internally. I would say a lot of it is, when I wrote my first book, I wrote it and submitted it to an agent, but all the other writers that I had met after that, they were in writers groups, they were sending out their manuscripts to other people to make it better. That never occurred to me, ever. I think a lot of it is for some people it could be pride, for others it could be insecurity. It could be both, though.

Stefan Aarnio: Yeah, it could be fear, all sorts of things.

Stefan Aarnio: Now, to the young people out there, Tammy, the young people out there, what’s the one thing that young people or Millennials need to succeed nowadays?

Tammy Kling: I think Millennials really need collaboration, because like when I was 20 it never occurred to me to reach out. A lot of people that I know that have established businesses love giving opportunity to young people, whether they’re 20 or 30. I know somebody that came to me to write a book. He was a personal trainer and he trained this little kid and the kid’s dad said, “I’m going to give you this job, 50% of this company if you’ll continue to train my kid and I’m going to give you 50% of this company.” That guy sold his company, this personal trainer who knew nothing about business, and he sold it to the Japanese for 100 million dollars.

Stefan Aarnio: Wow.

Tammy Kling: That was only because somebody gave him 50% of an opportunity. I think that a lot of times that whole, “I know everything, I know it all,” spirit, which I know I had, especially right after college, it was either I know it all or I don’t know enough and I’m not going to let anybody know I don’t know it. I think that they really should be willing to reach out and ask for help, ask for a mentor.

Stefan Aarnio: Hold on. Let me get that straight. You had a guy who’s a personal trainer and a CEO gave him half the company just to be a personal trainer? Is that what you told me and then they sold it for 100 million dollars?

Tammy Kling: He did, he did. Now, they built a long relationship along the way after that, but this guy was simply a trainer and was broke and he trained kids. One of the father’s that he met believed in him enough to say, “Hey, I want you to run this company for me, and buy the way I’m going to give you half of this company.”

Stefan Aarnio: Oh, okay. I get it. I thought it was a Cinderella story. I thought it was like, “Oh, train me and I’ll give you half the company.” I was like, “What? I don’t understand.” He had to run the company too?

Tammy Kling: Yes. He had to learn how to run this company. That’s right.

Stefan Aarnio: Okay, okay. Good. I wasn’t really sure. That sounded like some Cinderella stuff. Okay. Now, we got to wrap up here, Tammy. Two more questions. Number one: Are there any resources that you’d recommend for people who are starting out that want to follow a path to success, like yours?

Tammy Kling: I would say the best thing to do is go buy some real classic books on how to be an entrepreneur at first, if you can, and join a master mind, but try to avoid signing on with any particular team or guru, because you could get in the wrong situation. You do see a lot of people out there on Facebook or [inaudible 00:45:01]. They may not have a viable business at all, but they’re holding all kinds of seminars. You really have to get in with the right group. One incredible resource for me has been entrepreneurs who already made their business and their life a success. People really want to help other entrepreneurs. You’d be surprised. If you reached out to someone on LinkedIn or email or sent somebody a note, that they really will want to help you and give you advice. Developing those relationships and really critical is building a solid life team. You have to have good discernment to know who to let in your circle and the best resource that you could have is a life team of 12 key people that …

Tammy Kling: It’s different than a mentor. It’s different than the idea of some gray haired, old guy who’s going to help you and they’re going to be your mentor, a success story. It’s not that. It’s a life team is 12 people that have achieved success in different areas and maybe it’s even a different industry then you’ve ever been in, but that those 12 people aren’t necessarily your best friends. It’s not about bros, it’s not about loyalty. It’s about people that you might call when you need something and you know you can rely on them. It’s not like they’re your best friends or your brothers.

Stefan Aarnio: Right. People who can call you out on your B.S.

Tammy Kling: Yes, and people that, they’ve been successful. On my life team, I have a lawyer. I may not talk to him except once a year, but I know he’s on my life team and if I call him it’s going to be … He’s going to give me the straight advice, not some B.S. I want to hear. I’ve got guys like you that I can say, “Hey, what do you think about this sales process?” You’d say, “I think you’re full of it. Here’s what I do.” Really, really talking to other people that are smarter than you in certain areas is the best resource you can have.

Stefan Aarnio: Awesome. That’s fantastic. One final question, Tammy. Do you have any programs or causes you’d like to promote to the people listening today?

Tammy Kling: Well, the program that we have, we have a great mentorship program, which is a life team, called The Conversation. You can go to whereworldchangesmeet.com and we have the conversation for men, we have the conversation group, which is circles of entrepreneurs and they all come together and sit face to face. There’s no stage. There’s no main speaker. It is simply a place where entrepreneurs can network and connect. It’s not a learning event where people are going to go and get a bag full of free stuff. It’s actually an event where you’re going to meet other entrepreneurs, world changers, and be able to talk about real life, connect with great people. The conversation and if anybody wants to write a book, certainly or build a big speaking platform, please feel free to reach out at OnFirebooks.com.

Stefan Aarnio: Fantastic, Tammy. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Really appreciate having you. You’ve got some real insight and really great stuff. Thank you so much.

Tammy Kling: Thank you. It’s great, great being on. It’s such an honor. Thank you.

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