Paul Getter is an internet marketing expert, consultant, motivational speaker, and founder of The Internet Marketing Nerd.

Just 9 short years ago, Paul Getter was broke, struggling, and trying to make ends meet delivering phone books out of the back of his 1996 Dodge Caravan…

Paul started learning about the power of internet marketing, and within just a few short years become one of the most sought after marketing experts in the world, spending MILLIONS per month online for his clients.

Podcast Transcribtion:

Stefan: Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Respect the Grind with Stefan Aarnio, this is the show where we interview people who’ve achieved mastery and freedom through discipline. We interview entrepreneurs, athletes, authors, artists, real estate investors, anyone who’s achieved mastery and examine what it took to get there. Today on the show, we have a new friend of mine, Paul Getter, he’s well-known as the internet marketing nerd for so many top entrepreneurs. He’s worked with Ty Lopez, Bob Proctor, Zig Ziglar, Fortune 500 companies, specialized in webinars, and free book funnels. Paul, Respect the Grind, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Paul: Hey, thank you very much. It’s my privilege and honor to be here with you. This is exciting!

Stefan: Thank you my friend. And, you know, for the people at home, you know, maybe they’re driving to work, you know, they’re listening to this in their car, I got Paul on video here. He is dressed to the nine’s, he’s got a bow tie on, he’s got a tweed jacket, he actually looks like an internet marketing nerd. But it’s funny ’cause, you know, today his look he’s got here with the glasses, that’s like a GQ look, man. So, you’re winning on two levels. You got the brand and that’s like a hot look. If you went into a bar, a girl would be like, “Oh yeah, that guy’s a good dresser.” You know?

Paul: Well, I tell you what, I was a nerd before a nerd was popular.

Stefan: Dude, I’m giving you a gong for that. “I was a nerd before a nerd was possible.” Right out the gates, one gong. So, Paul, tell us at home, you know, internet marketing’s hot, you know, you see funnels all the time like, “Hey, for $1.99 learn how to make a million dollars as an internet marketer. Learn how to build funnels or learn how to make a million on social media.” How did you get going in internet marketing, Paul?

Paul: Man, I tell you what, people ask me that question all the time like, “Hey, why did you become an entrepreneur?” I’m like, “I needed to make money.” I was broke, I was struggling, and I always had that kind of a nerd background where I was playing around with websites. And back in the days, we used to call them Bulletin Board Systems and helping build networks and things like that but wasn’t ever really making any money. But as social media began to grow, I started playing around with it and realized, look, this is more than just some playground where people post pictures of food and things but there was an opportunity to connect with people in the real world and make real money.

Stefan: So, you know, I love hearing the evolution of things. You know, the internet back in the day, it was like forums and people would go on forums, like search engines. There was a ton of different search engines and this is like pre-Google days right? There was no YouTube, there was no social, so tell us about your first internet marketing project? Like, what was the very first one you did and how much money did you make?

Paul: Okay, so, the first time I made money online, it was with Ebay. When Ebay first came out I was, I guess you would say, in between jobs and I was trying to figure out a way to make some money and I saw people putting stuff on Ebay. So, I put some clothes, some extra clothes that I had on there and made few dollars. I was like, “Oh, wow, people really buy this stuff.” I found there were these little circle lights that are battery operated that you push and I found them at Dollar Tree, course only a dollar, bought about 10 of those, put them on Ebay, and here in Florida we have hurricanes so I said, “Get your hurricane light and be prepared.” And I sold them for $9.99.

Stefan: Whoa! Whoa, bro. Mark up on mark up.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. Not only that, I think shipping and handling was $1.95 and I charged $4.95 for shipping handling. So, I was making my money back just with the shipping and handling.

Stefan: Whoa! So, you’re like a Bitcoin millionaire back then, bro.

Paul: Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So, pretty soon I was going to every Dollar Tree, buying up these battery operated lights and sold a closet full of these battery operated lights. So, that was my first opportunity that I made money online.

Stefan: So, that’s a great story because … well, actually, I’ll let you tell the … what’s great about it, Paul. How did you add value? So, you took that dollar light, which was probably like 10 cents in China or something. They probably made like 10 x mark up on the manufacturing, I’m sure. So, they probably made 10 or 20 x mark up and then you took that thing and you marked it up 10 more times and they added like another 5 x on shipping. How did you add value there? There’s people at home that are probably, no jokes, have their mind blown ’cause they haven’t heard something about that. Where you take a $1.00 light from the store and you go sell it at, you know, online for 10 bucks. How is value added?

Paul: Well, I think it’s a matter of presenting it in a way that the perceived value is greater. That it’s more than just a push button light that turns on that is battery operated but this is something that can bring you convenience and preparation in the time of a hurricane so now it’s…

Stefan: So, we’re selling to the preppers, we’re selling to the preppers [inaudible 00:05:01].

Paul: to the preppers.

Stefan: Get your knives and you watered food dehydrator too while you’re at it.

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.

Stefan: Yeah, so I love that. You created a story around it and it’s almost like, I always say, at the mall, when you go to the mall they got the Victoria’s Secret store and they got a poster with a Ukrainian 15 year old girl wearing the bra and panties and lights and they got perfume and they got music and they got some cool people walking around with all black and the lights and it’s seducing you and it’s $99 for the bra and panty set but if you went and got that at a garage sale, it would literally be zero dollars for the same bra and panties ’cause it’s not presented in such a way. Presentation’s everything isn’t it?

Paul: Absolutely. Presentation and, you know, showing the people that they need it. That it’s essential, you know, give them an urgency, look, this is hurricane season, you need.

Stefan: Oh man, hurricanes are coming!

Paul: So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, maybe if it wasn’t hurricane season and there was … and when I was selling these, it was during hurricane season. So, everything just kinda lined up and that’s why I initially bought one from the Dollar Tree is because hurricanes down here in Florida, it was that season, I thought, “Man, this’ll be great if the lights go out. Have these little lights.” So, yeah, tell a story and compel the people that the need this.

Stefan: That’s amazing. So, Paul, now was that with Facebook Ads back in the day? Or is that Google Ads?

Paul: No, that was just organic Ebay, putting it up on Ebay and selling it. Yep.

Stefan: So, people were looking for hurricane lights on Ebay?

Paul: Yeah, yeah.

Stefan: So, Paul, okay let’s talk about the evolution. Like, what are you doing today? So, today you’re like … you’re doing the webinars, you’re doing the book funnels, this is a big thing. Like, everybody wants to be a coach, everybody wants to be a speaker, everybody wants to be an internet marketer. You know, how did you go from point A to point B selling a little light and now you’re, you know, doing stuff for big names?

Paul: When I got into Facebook, I remember a friend of mine was going off to college and they said, “Hey, you need to get on Facebook.” I’m like, “Man, that’s just a waste of time and don’t wanna do that.” And I eventually started up a profile and got connected and I saw that there were ads running and started looking at these ads. And back then it was like the wild, wild west. You could run any type of ad to any product, any website, it was just … there was no rules. I started building Facebook pages as a hobby and, you know, around cool, fun niches. Back then organic reach was crazy, I mean, you could just … the organic reach was completely different.

Stefan: Bro, I’m like sad. I’m like wishing for 2012 to come back on Facebook. You post like … a guy on my page, he said, “Yeah, man, my first daughter was born I got 450 likes, my second daughter was born I got 9 likes.” I’m like, “Oh, dude.”

Paul: [inaudible 00:07:59]

Stefan: Well, the algorithm changed [inaudible 00:08:03] hey, man, baby’s not even getting in the algorithm anymore.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, so those were the days. I mean, we could build huge pages really quickly. At that point, when you have a large portfolio pages, people would start to Inbox you and say, “Hey, would you post this on your page?” And it was different companies and businesses, we did stuff for movies, we did stuff for … you know, people wanted to get the word out about their business.

Stefan: So, that’s what’s happening on Instagram right now. Instagram is wild west and that’s going on on Instagram.

Paul: Yeah.

Stefan: And then Zuckerberg’s gonna kill that party too.

Paul: I hope not. I hope not but we’re gonna party until that happens that’s for sure.

Stefan: So, sorry to interrupt you there, Paul. I’m just … I’m like, I’m feeling you man. Keep going.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. So, all these companies are reaching out to us to post and thought, “Wow, we need to capitalize on this.” So, we started learning how to not only build things organically but through paid ads and through just a process we had some big name people reach out to us because we had this large social media presence. We had Facebook pages with tens of millions of people on it. So, people connected with us, wanted us to promote their products, give them shout outs, and things. Of course, when the algorithm changed, we have all of these big Facebook pages and the organic reach stinks. So, that really pushes you in a direction where you have to learn paid traffic and learn it at a level that you can do big things. So, I guess the difficulties is what pushed us into learning at a higher level.

Stefan: Right, well, that’s just what respecting the grind is right? You know, you’re hitting it, you’re hitting the wall at some point, now you gotta evolve, you gotta change. So, organic wasn’t so cool anymore and then suddenly, now, you’re in the game of paid traffic. So, you know, there’s people at home who are listening to this who are maybe like a realtor or a real estate investor, they don’t know so much about like maybe internet marketing. What’s the difference between organic traffic, Paul, and paid traffic?

Paul: So, organic is, basically, you have your social media following. You have your Facebook page or you have your Instagram page. When you post something on that page, whatever engagement, whatever the like, the shares, you know, that social engagement you get without putting any money behind it, that is your organic reach. A lot of times people are not happy with that. They want to accelerate that. So, that’s when you go into paid traffic. Paid traffic, you know, it’s pay to play. You … the more money spend, the more engagement, the more clicks to websites, all of that is possible through paid traffic.

Stefan: So, let’s talk about … you know, it’s interesting ’cause I have a wonderful story about starting out as a guy flipping houses. I was broke living at my mom’s house. I had $1200 bucks and six and half years later became a self-made millionaire through real estate. I learned to raise money, I learned partnering, I learned how to buy houses, fix them, sell them and won Rich Head International Hall of Fame. Pretty cool award and people called me and they said, “Wow, Stefan, you won this award, you wrote this book. I saw you speak, I read your book.” ‘Cause I was raising money for real estate, that’s what I did for my internet marketing and then I started coaching people because coaching was the … turns out there’s a lot of people that wanna be in real estate. That’s just … they want to invest and I remember, you know, those organic Facebook days and people would just call me and we would just do business. And I’d post a blog, you could still post a blog on Facebook and people would, the algorithm would let people read it and come to your sight. Nowadays, they’ll slap the shit out of you if you do that. It’s not happening.

Stefan: So, back then it was great, organic traffic, I got started. And then when I got into paid traffic, Paul, I don’t know if my story’s better or worse than some of the other ones you heard, I spent $150,000 on a series of funnels and campaigns and I burned it all. I lost it all, I made no money and just completely wiped out and I always say to people who are transitioning into internet marketing like there’s a tuition there, dude. It’s not like a $99 book you buy and you’re gonna be an internet marketing king. Do you think that my story evaporating a hundred and fifty grand before being able to start hitting, do you think that’s a common thing or do think that that’s uncommon? What do you think about that?

Paul: I think if a person evaporates $150,000 their, you know, if you’re learning it on your own that can happen. That’s why you wanna be connected with someone that has already burnt the $150,000.

Stefan: I’m giving you a gong for that.

Paul: Yeah, so, I have had the months when I first got started, where … now, just to make myself feel better, I never said I lost $100,000, I say, “I invested $100,000 into learning.” Somehow that just made my conscious feel better that I didn’t lose but I invested it into learning. So, yeah, I guess there’s a couple ways that you can learn by spending $100,000 and playing around and testing and, you know, making the mistakes and flush it down the toilet. Or you can spend $100,000 on courses, mentorship, coaching, and you know it, get results quicker. And you learn from other people’s mistakes.

Stefan: Right, you can speed up the process. Now, one of the things I remember when I was starting with the funnels, was I remember I hired like three different dudes. I hired a copywriter, I had a coach and he said [inaudible 00:13:28], “look man you gotta hire a copywriter, then you gotta hire like a technical funnel infusion soft guy. Then, you’re also gonna hire … somebody else was involved, there was like a third person. I can’t remember who it was. Then, we had to get a video made and then we had to get like some like some teleprompter thing and I had to read the copy and it took so long. It was like the shittiest funnel ever, it was so inauthentic. And then for some reason, thinking back to this, Paul, I had a book published but my team of three guys who didn’t know me, didn’t know my products, they’re like, “We have to invent products.” So, we started inventing products, we didn’t just use the book and so this funnel was like the biggest piece of trash ever. And it was like a free ebook with some horrible copy, going into some invented product that made no sense and then I can’t remember where the funnel ended but it ended like not being very good.

Stefan: It was just like a piece of trash funnel. I felt like some of the mistakes on that were, if I’m selling an orange, I wanna take a squeeze out of the orange and get the juice and sample the juice to somebody, see if they like the orange. What are some of the best types of funnels that you’ve seen and what’s like the most effective way to market your product or service? It’s kind of a broad question but, I guess what I’m saying is, I had such a disconnect between the marketing and the product, that it just didn’t work. It was so inauthentic. So, how can you solve that problem for someone?

Paul: Yeah, so, I think the easiest way to find … to build a successful funnel is to find someone that already has a successful funnel. Find someone that is getting awesome results. Look at what they’re doing and be inspired by it. Obviously, you can do searches and do your investigation and find people that are doing stuff at a top level and making good money. Well, look at that. If they’re spending a lot of money on ads and you know they’re getting results, it’s working. So, look at what other people are doing and then you have to know your audience. You have to know what connects with them. What are they looking for … you know, years ago, I used to get an emotional connection to a product. Like, I’d be like, “Oh, this is awesome.” We used to t-shirts and things like that and I would get so emotionally connected to this design and I’d like, “This design is awesome! I love it! We’re gonna sell a ton of these shirts.” And They wouldn’t sell and I would like well, “We just gotta change the targeting. It wouldn’t sell. We gotta change the colors, it wouldn’t sell. I would waste so much time because I was emotionally connected to it.

Paul: Now, I don’t follow the emotional connection. I follow the money. If I don’t like design but the customers are buying it, I’ll sell it. You know, forget…

Stefan: Oh, I’m giving you a gong.

Paul: All right. All right. So, yeah, do not get emotionally connected to what you feel is gonna work, get emotionally connect to the South that it has.

Stefan: Paul, I love you, man. I wanna give you a big internet hug here, Paul. Because like in the house flipping business when I started, I would bring these 21 year old girls over to my houses and I’d make them stage it. So, I would literally get the woman who’s gonna buy the house, to stage it the way she wanted to see it. It wasn’t the way I want to see it, I’m a man, I don’t really … I don’t care what color the rug is. I don’t care about the fluffy pillows and stuff but I got the women that would buy the house to stage the house and I got the women to pick the colors and I got the women to make what they wanted to see in the design and then … ’cause I knew that when a man or a woman is buying a house, it’s usually the woman who picks and then the husband has to pay for it. Right? That’s just how it is.

Paul: That’s right, that’s right.

Stefan: So, I didn’t make what I wanted. I made what the customer wanted to see and I gave you a gong there because I think so many people get into business, like you said, and they get emotional they’re like, “Here’s my magical thing I made.” Especially authors, right? I wrote a book about my grandma or something and it’s like nobody wants to read about your grandma. You gotta hit them with get laid, get paid, live forever. Like, that’s what they want. Not like, my dog Suzy, like pooped on the floor this morning.

Paul: Right, that’s … for sure. You know, one of the things that I saw in this is, you know, we have this preconceived idea … okay, this is my buyer but if your buyer is not buying, then they’re not your buyer. You know what I mean? I go back to the t-shirts, for example, ’cause that was kinda like our infancy beginning and we learned a lot from that, made a lot of money selling t-shirts and apparel. But I would make a design that would appeal to men and so I would push it … my audience and my targeting, I’d be like, “Okay, this is gonna be for male, 20 years old to 35 years old.” And I’d come up with this idea who I though my buyer was and that was not my buyer. It was the woman who had the man, that wanted to buy the shirt for the man.

Stefan: Oh, for him as a gift?

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stefan: Damn, bro. I love that. Dude, I almost wanna give that a gong but I feel like I’m late on it. That’s some good insight there. You know talking about the men and women thing, I was at an event on the weekend with Garrett J. White, Wake up Warrior and it’s like a Tony Robbins thing but it was interesting because it was all men. So, you had to check off a box, “I am a man and if not a man, I’m not allowed in the even, which is like nowadays with like discrimination and stuff, like, you can’t really do that very much. I know Facebook slaps your ads if you try to do that. So, they have a box right before you’re paying it says you have to be a man to enter. And then they made everybody dress up in all black like they made everyone do push ups, they make a german shepherd dog barking at people and like Navy Seals and they smashed someone’s phone state ’cause he was on … like, it was like …

Paul: I love it.

Stefan: I know, bro. It was just 1200 men and we were just manning out together and I was like, this is genius because Garrett eliminated women. If you had like one woman in the room and she’d start crying when the german shepherd’s barking at her or she’d be like, “That’s mean. You can’t do that.” And what Garrett did is he said, “Women aren’t gonna buy my shit.” So, he just took women right out of his thing and it’s a super focused, super powerful message. And I was sitting there I’m like, “Man, my message is 88% men, 12% females who are acting as men. Like, they’re trying to flip houses and I though should I just go all men and just make it a super powerful man message? What do you think of that?

Paul: Well, again, you gotta follow the money. Who’s buying it? There’s always going to be that small percentage that doesn’t fit your avatar buyer. Like you said, they’re acting like your avatar buyer. So, they are your avatar buyer.

Stefan: Right, but the messaging’s insane when you make it all men, you can get away with shit you never could get away with. It’s like Wolf of Wall street, man, I mean, like it’s just like there’s dwarves and there’s all these girl every … it just turned crazy, well, he didn’t have girls at his event but, you know, you got the idea. You got tribalism almost. Talk to me about tribes for a little bit, Paul, you know on the internet how do you find the tribes and the people that maybe would be interested in your messaging? Is if Facebook groups? Is it forums? Like, how do people find their tribe nowadays or do you just say, hey, let’s just run targeted ads and forget about it?

Paul: Yeah, so, bringing people into a tribe is something that brings extreme value to your product, to your brand. And how that can be done is you’re selling them the product and then as a support you may, in the back end, have a private Facebook where you’re gonna have exclusive access to the team leaders and there could be questions and answers and there’s a dialogue going back and forth. I’ve also … I’ve seen people use other platforms like Telegram, platforms that are specially designed for their platform. So, it is important to build that relationship with people because, you know, sometimes I think we forget that social media is social so there has to be a highway. There has to be a dialogue going back and forth, it’s not just you putting your message in front of the people and then consuming it but they have to respond to it, they have to talk to you about it, there has to be that social engagement and that interaction with people. So, it’s more that just … I think you are given permission to sell anything to anybody until you give them value. So …

Stefan: I’m feeling a gong on that one.

Paul: Alright, alright. We’re going the right way.

Stefan: What are some of the ways that you can build value with people? Because, you know, we have so many different people on this show and like some people wanna talk like techniques and like some people wanna talk about … oh, I don’t know, any number of things but value, like, you know, if you got a good soup, if you’re serving a good soup, your restaurant’s gonna be full. Like, if you got a good product … like, I’ve noticed with myself, I typically have the goods. My programs are good, my books are good, the things I have are good. So, even when I screw up the marketing, for example, I just put out a new book, Hard Times Create Strong Men, I got … my secretary here has a folder of email love letters from customers saying how much they love the book.

Paul: Awesome.

Stefan: And it’s awesome ’cause the soup’s good, right? We’re serving soup, I got a good soup kitchen, people are buying my soup, they like the soup. But how’s some ways that you can build that value with the customer before they buy the soup and that they know it’s a good soup?

Paul: Yeah, so, you know, I think sometimes marketers and entrepreneurs are apprehensive about really giving people value. Like, pulling back the curtain and showing them behind the scenes stuff. You know, it’s like we all feel like we have these secrets and stuff. You know, I’ve been around long enough that the guy that’s like, “Oh, I’ve got this special technique.” He’s just like redefining it. It’s not really anything new, it’s just he’s renaming [crosstalk 00:23:30]

Stefan: I like what Jim Rohn says, he says, “There’s no such thing as new antiques.” all these things are old, well, you can’t have new antiques, man. That technique’s like an old thing repackaged.

Paul: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, anybody that tells you, “Oh, I’ve got some super secret.” They’re just trying to sell you. You can probably find it on YouTube for that matter. Let’s be honest, a lot of the stuff that we teach and we sell, someone can probably find these techniques for free online but what we have to do is, we have to package it and give it to them in a way that makes sense, that adds value, and is done in sincerity and integrity.

Stefan: Another gong for that. You’re getting. It’s all about packaging, bro. Packaging’s everything.

Paul: Packaging and, you know, access. Access to the individual that is actually done it because although a video can be very informative and the implementation of the techniques can also be challenging and people might have questions and if they have access to you, then you can help them out. You can hold their hand and you can take them to the next level.

Stefan: Wow, I love what you said about the behind the scenes and you open up the curtain. I was talking to a guy earlier today, did a couple of podcasts and he was saying, he’s on Instagram and one of his main marketing pieces, I think he was like a marketing/branding guy, and what he did was he took his coaching calls and he recorded them and turned that into content, like obviously like bleeped out the person’s name, it was private, right? But his content is his coaching calls. So, like you’re actually watching this guy coach and he says it’s the most craziest thing because people are like, “Oh man, if he can do that for that guy. Imagine what he can do for me.”

Paul: Right, right.

Stefan: Right? And he just pulls the curtain right back, he’s like, “Here it is. There’s nothing secret. You’re gonna watch me coach right here.”

Paul: Yeah, yeah. It’s so true because the secret mentality or this “I’ve some special sauce.” there may be an ounce of truth to that but there are …

Stefan: Hey, bro, the Big Mac sauce is a good sauce. Like, the guy who made that, he’s rich.

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely but the fact is, we could probably make something that tastes like the Big Mac sauce.

Stefan: Okay, yeah, Burger King. Burger King tried with the Big King.

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stefan: It’s not the same though.

Paul: so … but I tell you what, if Joe’s Diner could absolutely replicate the Big Mac sauce and make it taste just like the Big Mac, it …

Stefan: You mean like In-N-Out? In-N-Out Burger, they got like Big Mac sauce on their like In-N-Out Burger.

Paul: Yeah, but if I want a Big Mac, I’m not gonna go to Joe’s Diner. I’m going to go to McDonald’s so … because I’ve got that relationship with McDonald’s and I know they’re consistent. I know what I’m gonna get. So, yeah, that consistency, the relationship, it doesn’t come overnight. You’ve gotta have success, you gotta have corn in your crib to really make an impact on people.

Stefan: Well, we’re talking about brand power now. I mean, like that’s like Warren Buffet, he wants businesses with motes built around them. And like McDonald’s has such a mote, they’ve got the best real estate in the world and then they’ve got the Big Mac sauce and then they got the $1 McCheeseburger with the perfect ratios and you just can not mess with McDonald’s bro. Like, they got a brand and Burger King tries. They try to go across the street, they’re like the MeToo of the burgers but Burger King will never be McDonald’s. Pepsi will never be Coke, you know? Microsoft will never be Apple, right? There’s just like … and you can’t beat Disney. Like, Disney owns everything now, like these companies are these companies.

Stefan: Now I wanna ask you a question here, Paul. One of my marketers, he says this, and I wanna hear your thoughts on it, he says, “Give it all for free and they’ll pay you to hear it again.”

Paul: Yeah, you know, I think … here’s something interesting and I was gonna say this earlier, but our mentality is we give them 80 percent of all the good stuff, all of the secrets and like that, we give them 80 percent of it for free. We will have a webinar and we give them 80 percent of it where they’re hearing it. We’re showing them the techniques and how to implement it and everything and then the 20 percent is just kind of like the glue that puts it all together and makes it simpler and easier for them to implement. So, yeah, because that’s what’s gonna buy the person’s, you know, the biggest bridge to cross on on online relationship is trust. So, I remember one of the first times I bought an online product that was, at the time for me, it was a big investment. I think it was like a $1,000. I watched the webinar and when I was done with the webinar, I did what the guy said to do and made money just from what was taught on the webinar. So, after the webinar was over, I tested it out, it worked. I went and bought the product for $1,000.

Paul: So, you would think that I would be like, “Oh, this works. I know what I’m doing, I’m making money.” And I think I made over $1,000 before I even bought the product and I remember talking to him, I’m like, “Look, I did what you said and I made enough to buy the course.” So, he had me as a testimonial video and everything like that. So, that was a really cool situation.

Stefan: Well, it goes back to what you were saying earlier about packaging. Like, I’ve got some courses behind me, the boxes cost more than what’s in the course. Like, the packaging is more expensive than what’s in the course and then also people are paying for the curated content and the branded content and the brand experience. And I think that’s something that people forget about is that it’s the experience at the end of the day. Like, people go to Netflix because of the experience. They lie in bed, totally naked, their girlfriend’s naked, they’re both covered in pizza. She’s on her phone, he’s on his phone, they’re watching Netflix. They binge watch, like, I don’t know, one of the shows on there and they order more pizza and that experience can not be beat. If you go to the movie theater, you gotta put your pants on, you gotta shave, you gotta shower, you gotta get in the car …

Paul: Horrible. Horrible.

Stefan: … you gotta drive, you gotta sit in the chair, you keep your pants on, you can’t cuddle. You can’t like have some sex in the middle of the show, you can’t bring your pizza in. So, like, Netflix for like 7 bucks or whatever they charge, is smashing the living daylights out of the movie theaters and the movie theaters are trying to bring beds in there, they’re trying to bring beds in movie theaters. They’re trying to bring like pizza in, they’re like, “Hey, get our pizza for like $50.” And you just can’t beat the user experience of Netflix. You can’t beat the user experience of Uber, you know, you push Uber, you push come on over Uber and a nice clean Mercedes rolls up, they give you a fresh bottle of water. The guy speaks English but he doesn’t talk to you and you know exactly how much it’s gonna cost in advance. And you get a cab, like I’m from Winnipeg in Canada, you get in a cab, they got a knife shield around the guy’s head with like knife marks in it. There’s puke in the back of the cab, nobody speaks English, it stinks like horrible, they don’t clean them and the government here’s trying to keep out Uber because Uber is gonna smash them on the experience.

Stefan: How important is the user experience to the product? ‘Cause I would argue, man, like if you’re giving away 80 percent of the content, people are just paying for the brand experience of working with you.

Paul: Sure, sure. They’re paying for that and then they’re paying for the personal connection there.

Stefan: Oh, bro, I’m giving you … that’s a gong. That’s a gong. People at home gotta take that home.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. The personal connection to be associated with you and that goes back to building a tribe. When you have people that are passionate people that are success stories, you’ve got some testimonials, you got people that are implementing what you’re teaching, they’re seeing success. And, really, there comes a point … you know, I think of guys like Ty Lopez, for example, Ty has multiple products and basically what he does, and he’s very transparent on this, that he brings in the individuals that are the specialists in it and he aggregates and has them teach it and he’s one that kind of facilitates the information. So, but, he might bring in someone that you’re not familiar with, you don’t know, but since it has the relationship with Ty Lopez, you’re gonna trust and you’re going to connect with it because you’ve had the experience with him and you know that he’s gonna deliver something that you like.

Stefan: Yeah, well it’s … and you know what else I really think is interesting about Ty, I went to his house for an internet marketing thing he was doing and he had is Lambo on the lawn and they had a whatever, the Rolls Royce, and like another Lambo and then something else. I’m not a car guy. The Knowledge Society is on the front door and one thing I thing Ty understands better than anybody else, is he does dating applied to business. He’s seducing you the way … I think he wrote two books on picking up girls and he owned night clubs and it was about picking up girls and salsa dancing and whatever. And so he’s applying pick up, like, dating girls pick up to business. And it’s so seductive and it’s so interesting and it’s so … it’s so crazy, I went to his house, though, it’s just a studio. Like, there’s nothing in it, there’s like a back drop. It looks like no one lives there ’cause probably nobody actually does and he runs it just like it’s like a night club. You know, he’s got this mansion in Bel Aire or whatever and it’s pretty cool, though, how he creates that seductiveness and he creates that experience to facilitate those things.

Stefan: So, how important is seduction nowadays with making people wanna work with you? ‘Cause it’s kinda like dating, like, you don’t just go up to a woman and be like, “Hey, let’s get married. Hey, let’s have sex tonight.” They all say, “No.” There’s been studies on that, 100 percent of women say, “No.” If you just go up them and just say, “Let’s have sex.” Whereas, I think it’s like 75 percent of men will say, “Yes.” to a woman. What’s the seduction process here to get people to buy your thing over time?

Paul: Well, I think if you’re gonna use the comparison of dating to a marketing concept and people working with you then what really helps is if you’ve got a good portfolio of previous people that you’ve dated. Then…

Stefan: Oh, bro, I’m giving you a gong for that. Here’s all the other people I’ve dated, do you wanna…

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The people that want to date with you are at the same level. So, yeah, I think … I would hate to use the word seduction when it comes to sincere marketing. Because seduction sounds like it’s maybe manipulative or something like that but I think that with sincerity that you really want to give people value, that is probably one of the greatest ways to appeal to people. So, I guess you could say that giving value is the greatest level of seduction that you’re gonna pull people in through giving them value. They’re gonna wanna work with you. They’re gonna wanna be apart of what you’re doing if you’re just helping them, increasing their level.

Stefan: Let me ask you this one, Paul, I heard a great thing on the weekend and I thought it was like just pure truth. It was, people only buy for one or two reasons and it was, they’re obsessed with raising their status or they want to avoid pain. What do you think about that statement?

Paul: Well, I don’t know if it’s … I guess maybe in a psychological sense that it’s possible but I would hope to think that sometimes people want to buy stuff to help other people and …

Stefan: Would that be for status?

Paul: Yeah.

Stefan: If they’re people.

Paul: You know, sometimes, it may but sometimes you help people and you don’t expect anything in return. That’s really helping people, you know, if you’re just helping people and you’ve got your other hand out wanting them to give you something in return then are you really helping them or are you helping yourself?

Stefan: That’s a transactional thing.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. So, if maybe there’s an aspect of like … or there should be, there should be in life that we just do it for … because it’s the right thing to do. We don’t get anything in return. We’re just doing it because it’s the right thing to do.

Stefan: Yeah, yeah. Cool, man, well, I wanna ask you a couple questions here, Paul, that absolutely everybody on the show answers. So, I got a couple if you’re ready for them.

Paul: I hope so.

Stefan: Paul, you’re a handsome, strapping young man but if you can go back in time to like 15 year old Paul, let’s say, and you’re gonna give yourself a piece of advice. What’s a piece of advice you’d give yourself?

Paul: Wow, that’s a great question. So, I think at 15 years old, most 15 year olds hasn’t really experienced what failure is. You know, their failure is limited to not getting picked on the team, not … you know, there’s not a real earth shattering failure. And when you find yourself in those failures as you get older sometimes they can paralyze you. It’ll just mess you up but then when you step back away from the failure, you realize, “Look, that made me a better person. I’m stronger from it.” So, I guess I would tell 15 year old Paul to don’t run from the failures but embrace the failures.

Stefan: Wow, walk into the fear. Walk into the pain. Live it learn it. That’s an interesting thing, man, we’re all trying to avoid that pain but the pain and the fear and the suffering is sometimes where we need to go.

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Stefan: Yeah, we’re getting deep down. Paul, top three books that changed your life?

Paul: The first book would be the Bible.

Stefan: I’m giving you a gong for that, bro. Not enough people say that on this show actually and it’s the number one most influential book in the United States, number two’s … So, the number one most influential book, the Bible.

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, the Bible, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and then Outliers.

Stefan: Malcolm Gladwell.

Paul: Malcolm Gladwell, yeah. Yeah.

Stefan: Damn. Why do you choose those three? Just give me a quick why.

Paul: The Bible, I believe that it is a book that has the answer for every area of our life, whether it’s relationships, financial, personal development. I believe it has the answer. Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I think coming from a home where I had a poor dad but evolved into a middle class dad, I can relate to it and it’s something that I can pass onto my children. My two sons have both already read it. And then Outliers, I think that it is a book that has, you know, it’s one of those books you start reading it at first and you’re like, “I’m doomed to be a failure.” and then a couple of chapters later, you tell yourself, “Okay, I can be successful.” that’s kinda the impact that it had on me.

Stefan: Wow. Yeah, I loved all three of those books myself. The Bible’s interesting, it’s like 770,000 words or something, like it’s massive and it’s just one of those like … it’s like trying to eat like a 70 inch pizza. Like, you have to like talk like a corner piece then you gotta like eat that thing over several days. So, let me ask you this, Paul, there’s probably people at home struggling to like read the Bible or [inaudible 00:38:47] like one of the things I find that’s difficult about it is, how do you directly apply some of the things? How do you study that huge text? ‘Cause that’s a big book. That’s like the base book of Western civilization.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Someone asked the question, “How do you eat an elephant?” One bite at a time. For entrepreneurs, business owners, people, one of the great books within the Bible is the book of Proverbs. Proverbs is just, although, it’s thousands of years old, it’s so relevant for us today. I would start out with that. It’s cool because you can read one chapter and I’m kinda like this when it comes to television, I don’t watch these TV series that you have to watch every episode. Because I’m like …

Stefan: The binge-watching?

Paul: Yeah, yeah. I don’t do that because I’m like, “Okay, I have to know all the characters names, their backgrounds, and everything.” So, I like to watch shows where it’s just like, “If I watch this episode, I don’t have to watch next week.” You know, that’s kind of … when it comes to reading the Bible, is you can read one chapter and then you can just apply it and glean from it piece by piece.

Stefan: Yeah, one bite at a time.

Paul: Yep.

Stefan: Now, Paul, with that, for the young people out there, 18 year olds. Imagine we got the 18 year olds, new generation of people, maybe they’re finishing high school, maybe they’re going into university, maybe they’re going to college, a lot of these people, they’re confused, man. The school doesn’t match up with how the real world is, what would you tell the young people, 18 year olds today who are just coming into the world. What’s a piece of advice you’d give to them?

Paul: Yeah, so great question. I have two sons, also a daughter who have graduated from high school. My two sons are in college, they’re going for Computer Engineering/Software Development, that type of stuff. I’m not one of these that are anti-education but my sons are really clear and they understand that what they could learn in college, they could also learn online.

Stefan: I’m giving that a gong.

Paul: Yeah, I think it’s real and not only that, you know, there used to be the day when I was younger that to get the good job, you had to have a Bachelor’s degree, a Master’s degree. Now, I know people graduated with a Master’s degree and the person working next to them never went to college.

Stefan: Well, I throw those degrees in the trash. When I get a PhD. or a Master’s, I just throw it straight in the trash ’cause I know that person’s such a robot, they can’t even think anymore.

Paul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, now they have boot camps where you can go three, four months of consolidated education and you learn just as much that you would … whether it’s computer programming, development, whatever, you can learn it quickly. So, but I guess the benefit of college might be the discipline that if offers and more importantly the relationships that you would make with people in college.

Stefan: I see, yeah. Well, if you’re like going to an Ivy League, it’s like the lucky sperm club. You know, the lucky sperm rolling around. It’s interesting what you said about the content. Like, I went to university, I have a major in English, a minor in music ’cause I dropped out of music, I dropped out of business, dropped out of Computer Science. I said, “Hey, how can I get outta here without dropping out?” She said, “Take two poetry classes, you an English degree. Thanks.”

Paul: Awesome.

Stefan: And so it was like a four year deal. I felt like there was six months of content spread out over four years and like there’s some classes that were amazing like Latin and Greek Elements, I recommend everybody takes a Latin and Greek Elements class. You don’t need a dictionary if you understand Latin and Greek Elements. You know, there was some Classic Literature, everybody should hit that. Logic, everyone should hit that. Basic programming, everybody should hit that. Critical Thinking, hit that. But then there was just like some garbage. Like, tons and tons and tons of just garbage and almost Communist indoctrination and just crap in there. And it’s interesting what they do in Germany, I don’t know if you know this, in the States the University inflates every year because the government policies have to inflate it. They have to inflate it every year and it has to do with the loans and the fundings.

Stefan: So, it’s like some stupid amount like $150,000 to get a degree there. In Germany, they give free education, do you know how they do it, Paul? They give … they say to everybody, “Okay, if wanna go to University, here’s a TV screen in a room. You go in, you watch the TV at this time, and then you fill out your exam.” It’s free. Anyone can do it. And it’s like, I don’t know why we aren’t doing that in the US. Why aren’t we doing that in Canada? I guess, there’s so much money being made, it’s a business, right? So, hey, go watch this TV, fill out the form, you get the degree. ‘Cause that’s pretty much … like a lot of those professors, they’re not even really serving you. So, anyways, I’m on a rant here, Paul. How can people get in touch with Paul if they want to know more? If they wanna get in touch, do business?

Paul: Yeah, so, first way is they can connect with me on Instagram. My Instagram handle is Paul, just P-a-u-l.

Stefan: Damn, bro, what’d you pay for that?

Paul: Oh, man, I knew the right people. So, yeah, that’s my Instagram. If you just…

Stefan: That picks up chicks at the bar. You’re like, “Hey, man, my handle’s Paul.” Wow, you got the original Paul.

Paul: I got the original Paul. So, that’s one way or my website is, you can connect with me there.

Stefan: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Paul. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Respect the grind, my friend.

Paul: Thanks a lot. It’s my pleasure.

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